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WWII Fighters HQ=20 Forum =AB = BF-109 Secretes=20 of the Experten =BB=20 =

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109_Raven
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3D""=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = on:=20 07/25/02 at 10:27pm =BB Quote Modify=20

3D"" =20

Gentlemen: It is our desire to = improve the=20 proficiency of our pilots in order to further = the=20 success of the Geschwader in combat. I will = apempt to=20 help all pilots(from "Nachwuchs" to "Experten") = in the=20 fine art of the 109.

How the = 109=20 fits into the WWII picture: The BF-109 has more = versions=20 modeled than any other aircraft. It is viewed by = many as=20 a second class plane. In fact the 109 was one of = the=20 best (if not the best) air superiority fighters = up until=20 late 1942 or early 1943. Only in late 1943 = onward did=20 the 109 begin to fade as new high powered = fighters began=20 to make their appearance. With such High=20 preformance planes such as the spitfire and the = P-51 it=20 is not surprising that the 109 gets relatively = little=20 use. The 109G is rightly considered a retrograde = step,=20 while the 109K was a attempt to pack the biggest = engine=20 imaginable into what was essentially an early = war=20 airframe.

Thus the 109 is a = plane=20 with dual identity in the air. In 1939-1942 it = was=20 state-of-art, while from 1943 onwards the design = was=20 beginning to show its age. The 109 in the game = matches=20 its historical source fairly well in that it is = not a=20 plane ideally suited to the beginner pilot. The = plane=20 can be quite effectively flown, but only if the = pilot=20 has to experience and savy to know how to get = the most=20 out of the planes strong points.=20

3D""=20 = Logged

Death Before = Dishonor!.....usually moments=20 before.=20 =

109_Raven
Flight=20 Instructor
Ace
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3D""

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3D""=20 Re:=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = Reply #1=20 on: 07/25/02 at 10:29pm = =BB Quote Modify=20

General 109 characteristics: =
All=20 109's, regardless of version, share numerous = traits.=20

Excellent climb = rate=20
Good rudder response =
Excellent high=20 altitude performance
Above average low = speed=20 handling
Good negative-G handling=20
Below Average visibility from the = cockpit=20
Not particularly "new pilot friendly"=20
Moderate to low ammunition supply=20
Mediocre ground attack capability=20
Poor Bomber Interceptor =
Mediocre=20 durability

3D""=20 = Logged

Death Before = Dishonor!.....usually moments=20 before.=20 =

109_Raven
Flight=20 Instructor
Ace
3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20

3D""

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3D""=20 Re:=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = Reply #2=20 on: 07/25/02 at 10:30pm = =BB Quote Modify=20

The Individual 109's=20 =

-----------------------------------------------------------= -------------=20 --------

BF-109E "Emil"=20
The "Emil" was one of the best and = fastest=20 planes for its time period. Only the Spitfire = could=20 claim roughly equivalent speeds and = capabilities. The=20 Emil possessed the usual good climb rate of the = 109=20 series. Its armament was superior for its period = as=20 well. Oddly enough it was one of the first = dominant=20 "Energy Fighters". The Luftwaffe pilots used the = 109's=20 superior speed and climb rate to good effect. = Using=20 those tactics the Emil could be almost = untouchable=20 versus many of the Early War planes it faced.=20

The Emil, like all the 109 = series=20 does not have great fuel capacity, giving it low = endurance. This weakness was particularly = highlighted in=20 the Battle of Britian where the 109's could stay = for=20 only a few minutes in the combat area over = England. The=20 109 was somewhat less maneuverable that most of = the=20 fighters it faced, but this was offset by the = 109's good=20 points.The 109E does not carry a lot of Cannon=20 ammunition, having a pretty low ammo load. So it = helps=20 to get in close and make the rounds count with = this=20 bird. Firing ranges of under 200 yards and a = very low=20 convergence would seem to be the wise course to = follow=20 in reponse to the Emil's ammunition loadout.=20

The 109E's only real = competition=20 among the early war planes is its archrival the=20 Spitfire. The planes are very evenly matched. = The=20 Spitfire I can outturn the Emil, but not by as = large a=20 degree as some would suspect. These planes match = up=20 almost identically in speed. The Spit I's poor = firepower=20 is a rather large handicap because it has to get = in=20 tight and stay there in order to get enough = .303's into=20 the target to score a kill. The 109 should = therefore use=20 energy tactics and only turn for short periods = to gain a=20 deflection shot. The Emil has a much better = chance=20 getting in a killing snapshot. The Spit on the = other=20 hand has to set up and get in a long sustained = burst in=20 order to take out the 109. =

Other=20 planes of the early war period should be minimal = threats=20 to the 109, provided the 109 doesn't fall for = the=20 temptation of turning with them. Almost all = planes of=20 the period are much slower and climb poorly. = Energy=20 tactics should be used to make short work of = them. The=20 Hurricane, being about 50mph slower is not a big = threat=20 provided that the 109 driver is smart enough to = avoid a=20 turnfight. The Hurricane is very maneuverable so = stall=20 fighting one is unwise.=20

3D""=20 = Logged

Death Before = Dishonor!.....usually moments=20 before.=20 =

109_Raven
Flight=20 Instructor
Ace
3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20

3D""

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3D""=20 Re:=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = Reply #3=20 on: 07/25/02 at 10:33pm = =BB Quote Modify=20

The Messerschmitt BF-109F "Franz" = =

-----------------------------------------------------= -------------------=20 --------

The BF-109F "Franz" is = considered=20 by many to be the best overall 109 varient. It = was the=20 best dogfighter of the series. While the later = "G"=20 series made compromises with added armor and = weight, the=20 "Franz's" design was not burdened with design=20 compromises to make it a better bomber = interceptor. It=20 was the last 109 varient still optimized to make = it a=20 air superiority fighter. The "Franz" had a top = speed of=20 about 370mph. It was however the most weakly = armed of=20 all the 109 series. It carried only one 20mm = cannon and=20 two light machine guns. Essentially this means = that it=20 relies on its single cannon firing through the = spinner=20 for its firepower.

This = varient can=20 give a good account of itself in a turn fight. = Its great=20 climb rate can be exploited in conjunction with = its=20 turning capability to make it a fairly close = match to=20 the Spitfire in a knife fight. Versus the = Spitfire the=20 109 is better of sticking to the vertical rather = than=20 flat turns where the Spit excels. The 109F = should use=20 its superior speed and climb versus the Spit V, = but=20 should be able to stallfight the Mark IX fairly = closely.=20 The Franz is a pretty forgiving aircraft to fly, = and=20 handles well at low speed. The 109 has a a bag = of tricks=20 which the experienced pilot can dip into. Its = does a=20 good scissors, and negative G maneuvers to force = overshoots or to elude a enemies gun solution. = It has=20 good rudder response.

The = "Franz"=20 has somewhat anemic firepower. It has the lowest = hitting=20 power of any 109 since the pre-war 109C. Since = one can=20 discount the 7.9mm light machineguns as = virtually=20 useless, the Franz relies exclusively on its = single 20mm=20 cannon to score kills. Like most of the 109 = series its=20 does not have great endurance or durability. The = Franz=20 is rather sluggish at high speed so the pilot = needs to=20 show care in high speed dives. Stacked against = its=20 contemporaries of 1941-1942 the Franz is one of = the=20 faster planes. On the other hand, the Franz is = slow by=20 late-war standards, with a top speed of of only = around=20 370mph.

The "Franz" can turn = well.=20 Against planes with similiar turn performance = use its=20 good climb rate to get little extra "edge" in = combat.=20 The 109F turns best with about 1 notch of flaps=20 extended. More than that is normally overkill, = which=20 only adds more drag. The Franz, like all 109's = can=20 exploit its high climb rate to "spiral climb" = its=20 opponent. Learn this tactic well with the 109, = because=20 its a bread and butter tactic with this plane.=20

The Franz is a plane with a = split=20 personality. Against the quick turning early war = planes=20 it is best used as Energy fighter. Against the = faster=20 but higher wingloaded planes of the mid and late = war=20 years the Franz is best used as a stallfighter. = As is=20 the general 109 rule, the Franz is a good = scenario=20 plane. The reason is simple. The Franz is one of = the=20 best planes of the early war period.=20

3D""=20 = Logged

Death Before = Dishonor!.....usually moments=20 before.=20 =

109_Raven
Flight=20 Instructor
Ace
3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20

3D""

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3D""=20 Re:=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = Reply #4=20 on: 07/25/02 at 10:38pm = =BB Quote Modify=20

The Messerschmitt BF109G6=20 =

-----------------------------------------------------------= -------------=20 --------

The Gustav was the most = heavily=20 produced varient of the 109 series. Wartime = development=20 tried to make the plane a more suitable bomber=20 interceptor. This largely failed due to the = small size=20 of the airframe. Instead of a sleek and = maneuverable=20 interceptor the plane became known as "The = Flying=20 Blister" due to all the modifications done on = the=20 airframe. With the modifications the plane = became a=20 somewhat second class plane. =

The=20 BF-109G6 is no doubt a better version of the = Gustav than=20 the G2. Its also slow by the standards of the = late war=20 planes, with a top speed of just a shade under = 400mph.=20 It is a 20mph faster than the 109F which is = good, but it=20 is also 10mph slower than the Spitfire IX.=20

The G6 does have a somewhat = better=20 cannon and the 7.9mm machine guns of the 109F = were=20 replaced by the more useful 13mm heavy = machineguns. The=20 109G doesn't have the most lethal weapons = package on by=20 any means, but with the 20mm firing through the = spinner=20 and the 2x13mm firing from the cowling, the 109G = has a=20 dense cone of fire with no convergence worries.=20

The 109G is a mediocre = stallfighter=20 at best. The 109G-6 is not going to compete with = the=20 Spitfire at low altitude. The Spitfire will tear = it up=20 in stallfight. The G6 still retained two of the = biggest=20 strengths of all the 109's - its very high climb = rate=20 and its high service ceiling. The 109 can really = get up=20 there into "nosebleed" territory. The 109 = has the=20 one of the best climb rates around. The Gustav = in fact=20 climb slightly better than the 109F, but not = quite as=20 well as the 109K. Nothing can spiral climb like = a 109,=20 so learn this move well if you want to be a = successful=20 109 pilot!

The 109's ammo = load is=20 miserly with only 9 seconds of fire for the main = cannon,=20 and its rather poor fighter-bomber.=20

The 109G driver has to be = aware of=20 the limitations of this plane to be successful = with it.=20 The reason for the Gustav's rarity in the Arena = is=20 rather obvious -- the plane is outclassed by the = high=20 powered planes seen in profuse numbers.=20

In the arena, the Gustav can = be=20 flown successfully as long as the pilot doesn't = expect=20 the world out of it. Diving into furballs versus = 38L's=20 and Spits and expecting to wrack up 3 or 4 kill = missions=20 will lead to an early death. The 109G driver has = to=20 choose his engagements with care, and watch his = energy=20 level carefully when confronting planes of = superior=20 performance (that is almost all of the most = commonly=20 seen planes on WWII). The 109G can use its one = great=20 asset - climb rate. Use the 109G's high climb = rate not=20 only to outmaneuver other planes in combat, but = also to=20 elude other planes when necessary. It is best = used as a=20 Energy Fighter - using its high climb rate to = dictate=20 the engagement. Normal Boom & Zoom tactics = with very=20 high speed passes do not suit the 109's style. = It is=20 better suited to the style of energy combat = where the=20 main objective is to set up a moderate altitude=20 advantage right over or near the target. Then = use short=20 sprint dives with moderate closure rates for gun = passes.=20 The 109 can then climb back out and loop or = climb away=20 as necessary.

The Gustav is = not very=20 fast, but fast enough if the pilot knows to = watch his=20 energy level like a hawk. Remember you don't = have the=20 speed to elude Spits and Mustangs, but you can = outclimb=20 them. The key to success is to judge the energy = level of=20 better performing planes very exactly, so that = if they=20 "turn" on you, you have enough energy to stay = out of gun=20 range and then to simply outclimb the adversary. = It is=20 usually a very good idea to allow yourself a = comfortable=20 cushion of energy superiority against the high=20 performance planes. If things begin to look = doubtful it=20 is best to use that energy cushion to simply = climb away=20 to a safe distance. Even Spits and 38's will = find=20 themselves sucking air trying to climb with you = if you=20 start your climb with a moderate energy = advantage.=20

Avoid stallfighting = Spitfires or=20 P38's if you want to live. In fact avoid = stallfighting=20 all together. The G6 version of the 109 is not = going to=20 compete on equal terms in stallfights.=20

3D""=20 = Logged

Death Before = Dishonor!.....usually moments=20 before.=20 =

109_Raven
Flight=20 Instructor
Ace
3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20

3D""

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3D""=20 Re:=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = Reply #5=20 on: 07/25/02 at 10:44pm = =BB Quote Modify=20

The Messerschmitt BF109K=20 =

-----------------------------------------------------= -------------------=20 --------

The Messerschmitt BF-109K = "Kurfurst" is a late war varient of the 109 = series which=20 saw service in the closing months of the War in = limited=20 numbers. The "K" was a seriously beefed up = version of=20 the 109G series. It sported large increases in=20 horsepower, and speed. Built to compete with = such late=20 war monsters as the Spitfire XIV, the 109K had a = powerful Daimler-Benz DB 605 engine which could = be=20 boosted to over 2000hp with nitrous oxide = injection.=20 This big engine pulling the 109's small airframe = provided the K with an awesome climb rate of = over=20 4800ft/min making it one one of the fastest = climbing=20 piston planes ever built. =

With a=20 30mm cannon and two 13mm machine guns its a = beast when=20 it hits. The 109K enjoyed the same high service = ceiling=20 of other 109's, able to exceed 40,000ft. This = 109 was=20 extremely fast with a top speed of around = 450mph. It is=20 one of the fastest planes in the arena, although = this=20 doesn't get alot of press time. The 109K is an = good=20 bomber killer if the pilot is a good shot. The = 30mm=20 cannon will make short work of even the sturdy = B17 with=20 just a few shells. The negative point of bomber=20 interception is that the 109K has to get in very = tight=20 to use the 30mm, and its not the most durable = airplane=20 in the air.

Having that huge = engine=20 in the 109s old airframe has many negative=20 rammifications. The 109K is a real Bear in the = Air, and=20 needs a veteran hand on the stick. The 109K has = a nasty=20 torque effect plus it handles very poorly at = higher=20 speed. The K's very powerful engine can = accelerate the=20 plane very quickly, but unfortunately it can = quickly=20 reach speeds where it becomes very dangerous to = fly. Its=20 very easy to lawndart this plane into the ground = if the=20 pilot isn't constantly aware of its high speed=20 characteristics. The pilot has to show care to = reign in=20 that DB-605 engine from time to time, because = letting=20 the engine "have its head" will lead to this 109 = horse=20 running wildly out of control in a gallop!=20

This 109 has a monstrous = punch, but=20 a very limited clip. It has the smallest primary = ammunition load of any plane in WWII. For this = reason=20 specialized tactics are called for to get that = big gun=20 on target.

My favored tactic = with=20 the K is to use flat low high speed attacks to = sneak=20 into the enemy's blindspot; then zoom up, bleed = off the=20 excess speed to make last minute gunnery = adjustments=20 possible, and then toast them with a few 30mm = shells=20 with a 0 deflection shot from very close range. = This=20 tactic plays towards the K's strengths = (excellent flat=20 acceleration and level speed) while avoiding it=20 weaknesses.

When elluding = other=20 planes it is usually very wise to avoid straight = tail=20 chases. Although the Kurfurst has very good = level speed=20 and acceleration it will soon reach speeds where = the=20 pilot will start to lose control of the = airplane. It is=20 generally wiser to keep to moderately high = speeds and=20 point that nose upward and climb out to escape. = Diving=20 away is often a very tempting escape, since its = a tactic=20 most planes routinely use. The Kurfurst will = quickly=20 reach uncontrollable speeds using this tactic.=20

A 109K with some kind of speed is = almost=20 guaranteed an egrees by simply going into its = patented=20 sustained climb. The K is the sustained climb = and=20 is the altitude king. Its climb rate is=20 tremendous, in fact there are only a couple of = planes=20 that come anywhere close. The KI-84 is quite = close to=20 the 109K in climb rate at low altitude, but it = will soon=20 fall away at higher altitudes. Over 10k, nothing = climbs=20 with the Kurfurst.

The K is = not good=20 at diving attacks from above because of its very = poor=20 high speed handling. The Pilot also should = generally=20 avoid deflection shots of any angle at all. The = 30mm=20 cannon has no ammo to waste on low probability = shots=20 like this. I use two different fire buttons = almost=20 exclusively when flying the K. A button for the = twin=20 13mm for deflection shots and ranges over 200 = yards, and=20 the "you are history pal" 30mm cannon button for = the=20 coup de grace.

Of course it = helps to=20 be an excellent shot with this plane. The 30mm = cannon is=20 big, but it has a low rate of fire, and its = supply of=20 ammunition is very miserly. This 109 version = especially=20 requires the "Hartmann Solution" to gunnery. = Close to=20 under 150 yards and use the 109's very big = cannon to=20 blow 3-foot holes in the target plane. = About 3 or 4 shells of the 30mm = cannon will=20 explode any plane, so a 1/2 second burst will = kill. But=20 there is a catch, if you miss you will find the = cannon=20 ammo counter reading "0" after only a few short = bursts.=20

The 109K is in all senses a = plane=20 for the "Experten" only. Its quirky handling and = extremely low supply of ammunition make it a = very poor=20 choice for a beginner. Its a major achievement = squeezing=20 3 or 4 kills out of this bird, so scoring = multiple kills=20 per sortie is anything but easy. The "Kurfurst" = can be=20 quite an effective plane, even though it sees = relatively=20 little service in the arena. I fly it with some=20 frequency simply because I find it a challenging = ride.=20

How's that for your = 109=20 appetite? I'll give some triks of the trade next = timw=20 when these blisters on my fingers heal...=20

=AB Last = Edit:=20 07/25/02 at 10:46pm by 109_Raven = =BB 3D""=20 = Logged

Death Before = Dishonor!.....usually moments=20 before.=20 =

=

Spooky
Ace

3DEmail=20

Gender: = 3Dmale=20
Posts: 57

3D""=20 Re:=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = Reply #6=20 on: 07/26/02 at 4:19am =BB Quote Modify=20

Beautiful! Keep it coming! =

3D""=20 = Logged

Renner

3D""
=

Marc-David
Rookie

If I had DSL, I'd beat You @ HL=20 ;)

Gender: = 3Dmale=20
Posts: 29

3D""=20 Re:=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = Reply #7=20 on: 07/26/02 at 4:44am =BB Quote Modify=20

Hi Raven, hi Spooky, =

what a=20 wondeful new place, here... so many fellow names = already=20 around....

Raven: that's a = real=20 scientific approach towards the 109 series. Very = comprehensive.
What I have to state = from my=20 point of view:
I have collected several 109=20 data-sources and compared with the 109 FM = Target, 5.0=20 final. I found some slight discrepancies (is = that the=20 word?): All sources give the K4 a level speed of = 607=20 km/h at sea level and 727 km/h at 6000m. The = climb rates=20 are mentioned with 3 min to 5000m and 6.9 min to = 10000m.=20 If I fly @ sealevel in WW2F even with Methanol I = can=20 barely reach 550km/h, and reaching speeds = araound=20 727km/h already lead into compression. =
Can You=20 confirm these experiences?
One other thing: = You=20 explained your favourite 109 maneuver some day = ago @ the=20 SIMHQ Board. Could you go through it once more, = step by=20 step, maybe with concrete Joystick and ruddr = "input"=20 advices and screenshots?
If it would = be=20 possible, I'd vote for
"Papa = M=F6lders-Raven" as=20 your new nickname...

Yours, MArc-David =

3D""=20 = Logged

109_Raven
Flight=20 Instructor
Ace
3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20

3D""

If you need = me..... Check=20 6

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Gender: = 3Dmale=20
Posts: 88

3D""=20 Re:=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = Reply #8=20 on: 07/26/02 at 11:07am = =BB Quote Modify=20

Thanks all my information comes = from=20 various sorces as well- some of the information = has been=20 from directly inteviewing real 109 pilots = themselves. My=20 wife at one point and time had a job as an = english=20 teacher in Germany. A dream come true for me, I = went to=20 alot of the historical places of WWII- truly a = great joy=20 getting to live in such a rich and wonderful = country.=20 And I haven't even gotten to the food, the beer, = and the=20 wine....not to mention the summer time fests... = I'd hop=20 on a plane in a second to go back. Anyway, = our=20 land lord was not a pilot but he was a late war=20 infantryman. He pointed me to plenty of pilots = in the=20 area- talking with them and doing some math = conversions=20 I established that what you read in the books = and what=20 was reality are diffrent. One rather burly pilot = (you=20 know he is big if I call him burly I'm 6'6") = Said he=20 could out dive any of the allied aircraft but = his fellow=20 pilots could not- reason is he had the seat = modified to=20 give him more room- and he was strong enough to = haul the=20 stick back. Unlike the planes of today = each pilot=20 was allowed to "modify" his plane to his own = tastes.=20

I learned the Controlled = stall=20 reverse from a pilot that flew the 109 over = Russia by=20 the name of Joseph Pfiner or as I came to know = him as=20 Jop pronounced (hyope).
Jop shot down 3 = american=20 bombers, and 1 p-40. He had an impressive record = against=20 russian Yak aircraft with 37 victories. = His=20 favored manuver was the controlled stall- The = notes I=20 have are as followes.

The = controlled stall=20 reverse:
The 109 handles pretty well = at very=20 low speed. It is possible to reverse using a = controlled=20 stall of one wing as a lever to reverse more = quickly.=20 The move is a slight variation of the normal = wingover.=20 That is; a slight nose high atitude following by = hard=20 rudder and then allowing the plane to slide into = a=20 reverse laterally as the rudder pushes the plane = to the=20 side. In dogfight when the 109 (works best in = 109F but=20 applicable to other 109's) is approaching stall = speed=20 with 1 notch of flaps, deliberately bring the = nose high=20 and begin a wingover knowing that the wing on = the side=20 of that the turn directed to is likely to stall. = The=20 wing stalls and the plane the stall then = accentuates the=20 normal wingover "slide down" so that the 109 = reverses=20 direction more quickly. Since the stall causes a = loss of=20 altitude, the entire maneuver performs a = similiar=20 function to the Low Yo-Yo in ACM. As the 109 = finishes=20 its stall slide going down it will pick up speed = in the=20 nose down attitude, thus letting the 109 regain = enough=20 airspeed to recover from the stall with a = significant=20 gain in angle.

Now a word of = caution- you cannot use this unless you have = some=20 verticle separation from your opponent. At least = 2500=20 ft, that might be cutting it close. Best used in = conjunction with a spiral climb that has been in = lag=20 pursuit- your opponent is getting low on energy = trying=20 climb with you. before he decides to drop away = and=20 regain some energy you must time the stall = accordingly.=20
Too soon and he will gain on you and into = firing=20 solution too late and you'll be stuck low on = energy and=20 at the same altitude with a superoir turing = plane with=20 more energy than you.

In = Game:=20
The 109 G will do it fairly well, again the = trick is=20 timing- and it will only work against an opponet = who=20 gets o aggessive and follows you into a spiral = climb. If=20 you dont fly with cockpit on you almost can't do = it.=20 The stall is more "feel" than anything = else- Start=20 by learning the stall itself- fly nose high = climb at a=20 30 degrees. Back off the throttle and pull up on = the=20 stick- soon as you feel the plane starting to = depart=20 nail the throttle and push hard forward on the = stick.=20 You have to kow the stall inside and out first- = as well=20 as spin recovery. Once you master stalls and = spins you=20 are ready for the controled stall reverse.=20
Also know your flight instruments- = using the=20 horizion indicator and he speed is most = important. I=20 tend to slide the seat back so I can get a good = overview=20 of the instruments. I have the second hat switch = set to=20 the seat controls on my X-45- this allows me to = "move"=20 around in the cockpit as needed. I can get close = to the=20 gunsight when needed and move back when I need = the=20 dash...

Hope this is a = little of=20 what youre looking for.

3D""=20 = Logged

Death Before = Dishonor!.....usually moments=20 before.=20 =

=

Spooky
Ace

3DEmail=20

Gender: = 3Dmale=20
Posts: 57

3D""=20 Re:=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = Reply #9=20 on: 07/26/02 at 5:36pm =BB Quote Modify=20

Oh yeah, baby... 3D""

=AB Last = Edit:=20 07/26/02 at 5:36pm by Spooky = =BB 3D""=20 = Logged

Renner

3D""
=

Medusa_WASP
Rookie

3D""

Chick behind the=20 stick

Gender: =
Posts: 22

3D""=20 Re:=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = Reply #10=20 on: 07/26/02 at 8:12pm =BB Quote Modify=20

A few classic 109 moves.=20

Hartmanns Escape: (An escape = maneuver=20 practiced by Erich Hartmann, the top scoring Ace = of all=20 time.) Throw the stick into one "corner" (45 = degrees=20 forward) and give a lot of rudder in that = direction. The=20 plane will slide down and to the side. A very = hard move=20 to match. An attack will have to roll about 150 = degrees=20 and then begin a normal positive G pull on the = stick in=20 order to pursue that move.=20

Corrollary to Hartmanns = Escape: A=20 very shape negative-G pushover pushing the plane = below=20 the enemies view. Then a sharp pull-up involving = maximimum rudder deflection. If done correctly = this will=20 leave the 109 flying at about 90 degrees off its = original flightpath, and the pursuer will have = lost the=20 109 below his cowling, so will have to reaquire=20 visually. By this time the 109 can try to extend = or even=20 turn the tables.

Aggressive=20 Corrollary to the Hartmann Escape: A short = Negative G=20 pushover transitioning to a sliding barrel roll = forcing=20 an attacker into an overshoot. If performed = perfectly=20 this maneuver will leave the 109 close on the = enemies=20 six after exiting the barrel roll.=20

3D""=20 = Logged

109_Raven
Flight=20 Instructor
Ace
3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20 3D*=20

3D""

If you need = me..... Check=20 6

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3D""=20 Re:=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = Reply #11=20 on: 07/26/02 at 8:16pm =BB Quote Modify=20

Thanks hon.

That's = about the=20 extent of my 109 knowledge- everything else is = BFM's.=20 What plane shall we look at next? Energy = fighting?=20 situational awareness? Another plane? I have to = claim I=20 don't know alot about any other plane than the = P-47. For=20 ground pounding that's my baby. Of course = its the=20 grandaddy of my ride... Any of the other planes = I'd have=20 to yeild to the experts of them.

Hope you all = get what=20 you need from all this.

=AB Last = Edit:=20 07/26/02 at 8:23pm by 109_Raven = =BB 3D""=20 = Logged

Death Before = Dishonor!.....usually moments=20 before.=20 =
=

Tarnsman
Rookie

Posts: 7

3D""=20 Re:=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = Reply #12=20 on: 07/31/02 at 9:37pm =BB Quote Modify=20

An overview of the p-47 would be = much=20 appreciated.

3D""=20 = Logged

Papa_Bar
Double = Ace

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3D""=20 Re:=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = Reply #13=20 on: 08/14/02 at 6:14pm =BB Quote Modify=20

I have no doubt that when I die = and go to=20 Hell I'll be put in a Bf-109G-6 with six = Mustangs on my=20 tail!

My bookselves are full of = books=20 about the 109 Aces but I'm lucky if I can get = that kite=20 off the ground without killing myself. =

I've flown with others = online=20 and watched them soar up into the clouds with = their 109s=20 while mine stalls out and flounders around.=20

3D""=20 = Logged

3D""=20
Skill is born of tenacious=20 = perseverance.

Papa_Bar
Double = Ace

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3D""=20 Re:=20 BF-109 Secretes of the=20 Experten
=AB = Reply #14=20 on: 08/18/02 at 7:52am =BB Quote Modify=20

I'm still having trouble trying = to sprial=20 climb in the 109G-6.
Even with the meth , I = lose=20 speed very qiuckly and don't gain much height.=20
What's the best climb rate and does the = sprial climb=20 really look like a sprial or more like an = octagon with=20 straight climbs between the corners? =

3D""=20 = Logged

3D""=20
Skill is born of tenacious=20 = perseverance.

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